Self Care is Not Selfish Pt 3: Hormones and Happy Chemicals
Show Notes
COLLAB SERIES WITH LET'S TALK
Gosh it’s fun, being a woman. So how much of how we’re feeling is actually at the whim of our hormones and brain chemicals?
In our final episode of our 3-part collaboration series with Lets Talk, we chat about the ways we can naturally boost our moods, through what we eat and what we do, on a daily basis. These are simple tips, like getting sunlight, enjoying nature and avoiding refined sugars, that can have a big impact on your life.
Dr Belinda Bell, a GP based in Warrnambool in south-west Vic is our guest. She experienced depression when she was younger and was even told she shouldn’t talk about it, because it might be used against her. But she didn’t listen and is now on the Board of the Lets Talk Foundation and finds her patients actually appreciate her openness about her mental health.
Dr Bell, also hugs her patients. Her empathy is her superpower. Hear her story and insight into what’s going on with our bodies, (from periods, to pregnancy, to menopause) that can be wreaking havoc with our emotions.
Abby Power, of Lets Talk also joins us again as co-host with Kirsten Diprose.
Make sure you listen to all 3 episodes in this special “Self Care is Not Selfish” series, with the Lets Talk Foundation.
Please Note: The views expressed in this episode are our own, we are not providing any medical advice
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Dr Belinda Bell: 0:04
I'm very pro-hug. Before COVID I was a big hugger and people used to be like why do you hug your patients? I'm like because I just do and they feel better for it and I feel better.
Abby Power: 0:14
Check on the women in your life. Just because they're women and they like to talk doesn't mean they talk about all the hard stuff all the time.
Kirsten Diprose: 0:21
Hello and welcome to Ducks on the Pond brought to you by the Rural Podcasting Co. I'm Kirsten Diprose and this is part three of our Self-Care is Not Selfish collaboration with Let's Talk. And the voice you heard at the start is Dr Belinda Bell. Yes, the hugging doctor, that's what I'm going to call her from now. She's a GP based in Warrnambool in southwest Victoria, and she experienced depression when she was younger and was actually told not to talk about it because it might be held against her. That's in the medical profession, but Belinda didn't listen and shares her story with others, so they know that they're not alone and that you can get help and get better. She's also now joined the board of Let's Talk and that's the capacity that she talks to us in today. She is not giving any medical advice, please talk to your own GP.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:17
Joining me again for this special series is Abby Power, who's the Community Activation Lead at Let's Talk. ? Hi, abby, hi, how are you Good? This is our final series. I've enjoyed having you on for a chat.
Abby Power: 1:32
Thank you, it's been really good.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:40
. I know this is a really important conversation because we've been talking about ways that we can really take action and do things in our lives and do things to help others, but sometimes we forget about the physical element of mental health. I know I do, but we've got hormones going on. We might have stress, it might be our diet. There are other things that we can do to help ourselves feel better and feel the best we can Of course yeah, there really are.
Abby Power: 2:06
We should add as well that the views expressed in this episode are our own, and obviously we have an amazing expert here with us today. But, of course, if you would like any support with any of these, please speak to your GP and your doctor and follow your healthcare advice, and so, for this episode, I've called in a professional. Again, I've called in Dr Belinda Bell. Thank you so much for being here. I wondered if you could introduce yourself.
Dr Belinda Bell: 2:32
Sure, I am a GP in Southwest Victoria. I work three days a week, which works well for my work-life balance. I am not only a provider of mental health services, I'm a consumer. So I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and OCD from when I was about 18. So it's quite a few years now.
Dr Belinda Bell: 2:54
A couple of years ago I got approached by Mick Fitzgibbon, the founder of Let's Talk, and he said hey, we're interested in having you on the board. I guess got a bit of a unique perspective and I can appreciate that. And at the time there were quite a few people, even in my profession, that would say to me oh, don't talk about mental health or don't let people know that you have a mental health diagnosis, because they can use it against you. And I thought that just made me really angry. I was like why have I got something to be ashamed of? People can only use something against you if you're ashamed of it and I felt really strongly that shouldn't be the case. So I said I'll come on board and I've stuck around since and I haven't been able to get rid of me and no one's used it against you. No, of course not. My patients tend to really appreciate me being so open.
Kirsten Diprose: 3:46
I want to ask briefly about the medical profession and its experience of dealing with mental health as well as all the physical stuff. Has that changed over time? I know when I have a doctor who also understands the mental health impacts of something, it makes it so much easier for me. So I've got a couple of dermatitis conditions, one of them psoriasis, and when I get a flare up it really affects my mental health, particularly if it's on my face. So it's so good to have someone who actually understands that I do training, so I graduated in 2012.
Dr Belinda Bell: 4:24
And I feel that there's a very holistic push, especially where I graduated, the University of Newcastle. They very much focus on the whole person and I know, meeting senior professors and professionals since then, that they can pick Newcastle graduates because we actually do focus on the whole person and we do pick up those things. We have this level of empathy which perhaps hasn't been nurtured as much in some other establishments, so it's interesting to hear it from them. We are not all cut from the same loaf. Everyone has their approach. Some people are very focused on the medical part of things and it may be a way of protecting themselves that they don't become so vulnerable and don't show a huge amount of empathy. Because there's such a great demand on the medical profession these days, people from generations back will go. I wouldn't do medicine now. There's too much red tape, there's just too much demand. It's just they're suited to different areas of medicine.
Abby Power: 5:28
Perhaps so, speaking of demand, belinda, as we know, obviously the mental health sector is under quite a lot of pressure, and are you finding, as a GP, that you're having more and more people present to you with mental health concerns?
Dr Belinda Bell: 5:42
It's difficult because I guess, since I've been a GP and I've always been a bit passionate about mental health, that word of mouth spread. I've always had a few people turn up with mental health issues. That's been my brain butter for a while. It does become really difficult from our perspective because there is a bit of a bottleneck. We don't have the number of psychiatrists to refer to or ones that are affordable. Saying that, I think the work that Let's Talk does is important because you're picking people up in the earliest stage where they can have their feelings validated, and I cannot think of the amount of times where if I had had someone just listen and I didn't feel like such a leper for not being able to manage in certain ways, and if I had someone to validate what I was going through when it was in such an early stage, I wouldn't have spiralled. I wouldn't have spiralled to getting to the point where I needed a psychologist and psychiatrist.
Kirsten Diprose: 6:46
Are you able to, if you feel comfortable, tell us a bit about your experience of depression?
Dr Belinda Bell: 6:53
Yeah, so as a teenager I was probably very anxious and I was always told to just oh, you'll be right, you'll be right, carry on, it's fine. And I used to get myself into such tears over things and I would hyperventilate and I wouldn't know. I'd be like there's something wrong with me and I can't control it, and it would be really distressing. And it wasn't until I went to uni and came back and I started seeing a counsellor that I went. Oh wait, and I started seeing a counsellor that I went oh wait, maybe there's a reason I'm feeling this way. And then I went on to see psychologists.
Dr Belinda Bell: 7:34
To be honest, the first four psychologists I saw probably made my symptoms worse. They weren't a good fit for me and it was only that I really advocated for myself that I went. I need someone that can really help me. That person ended up being the most unlikely person. He was a male psychologist who was diehards into statistics and had written a book on statistics, and he was the most black and white person you could meet and for someone that's probably a bit grey, sees all the grey. I really needed that and he was the first person to really make a difference for me, and often when I went in I so I'd go in with things like hyposomal, so oversleeping, really poor motivation, just feeling like my brain would not work. It was like there was a roadblock there and I, no matter how much I wanted it to work, like my brain would not work. It was like there was a roadblock there and I, no matter how much I wanted it to work, it just would not. I used to call it leaking from the eyeballs not crying, because sometimes I'd be like I don't know why I'm crying, like I get anxiety with when my depression plays up.
Dr Belinda Bell: 8:39
The most severe symptom I ever experienced was something called latent paralysis or latent paralysis. That's where your legs feel so heavy that you have difficulty actually lifting them, moving them, and that was just so mind blowing that your mind can have such power over your body. This was while I was studying medicine. I guess I'm not sure I would have been so lucky if I hadn't have had some insight into what was going on. I could look at it from an academic perspective, whereas people that don't know that would be going well. What is happening? I wasn't always supported.
Dr Belinda Bell: 9:16
Throughout medical school there was very much a push to just be okay, hide your weaknesses, because no one's going to want you on a training program if you are an emotional invalid.
Dr Belinda Bell: 9:29
And I, just that was the real message I got and instead of being sad about it, I was probably sad for a good while and then I just got angry and went no, that's not okay. I'm who I am and I can achieve things because I have insight into what my limitations are, which I think is far more of a strength than someone that's in denial about it. When I trained as a GP and they gave us a training talk on mental health and depression, I got up and I said to them, I said to my group of people my story and what had happened in my experience during training, and they just so many people were watery my experience during training and they just so many people were watery eyed, in tears, and they were like, wow, thank you for telling me. And it just really opened my eyes that it's not something that got talked about, people didn't talk about, and I think it was really refreshing for them to hear it.
Kirsten Diprose: 10:20
So, yeah, here I am and I'm still talking about it, and now that's turned into your superpower as a doctor.
Dr Belinda Bell: 10:27
A little bit. That's how I see it. It's I have this unique insight that can help people and that people can recognize. It's like you can see it in someone else. The amount of times someone has come in and talked about something, I'm like, yeah, but how are you really? And then they just look at me, and then I look at them and then they tell me about all. Yeah, it's a nice superpower, but at the same time, I need to be careful with my boundaries too. Everyone does.
Kirsten Diprose: 10:55
So let's start talking about what we're here to talk about, which is about all of those happy chemicals and things we can do to boost our mood. What's a good way to start? I suppose something as simple as eating and sleeping is a great place to start.
Dr Belinda Bell: 11:11
Yeah, definitely. I think the main things that are always pushed regular exercise, because you get the endorphins from that, usually outdoors, so you get the serotonin surge from the sunlight. If you're with people, then you get an oxytocin rush from that social connectedness. So, ultimately, exercising, being around others, being outdoors, eating well and I talk about staying away from things like refined sugars, because they have a huge impact not only on your biology systems but on your mood. When your sugars are constantly going up and down like a yo-yo, your mood is also going up and down like a yo-yo. So if you can eat more whole foods that are more protein and fat-based I'm actually a bit on a tirade at the moment about people eating full-fat foods because they're actually good for you and keep you fuller for longer and actually give you that bit of mental clarity for longer and also sleep.
Dr Belinda Bell: 12:14
But saying that not everyone that struggles from mental illness or that is stressed is going to sleep well, anything you can do to sleep is key to good mental health. I've come to realize I don't know how anyone functions when they are sleep deprived or how they can be okay mentally without sleep, and you find that once you repair someone's sleep cycle, their mental health follows in a positive trajectory. In short, exercise, diet and sleep three things that can definitely help. I suppose I should say four social connectedness so we're so isolated Despite being so connected, we are so very isolated. And actually having someone in the room with us and physical touch is something that can boost those feel-good hormones as well. That's why we say giving someone a hug is therapeutic. You hug them and you get a good release of oxytocin and then you just have this feeling of well-being. So yeah, I'm very pro-hug. Before COVID I was a big hugger and people used to be like why do you hug your patients? I'm like because I just do and they feel better for it and I feel better.
Kirsten Diprose: 13:26
Wow, yeah, I've never heard of a doctor who hugs their patients.
Dr Belinda Bell: 13:29
You pick your audience. You definitely pick your audience.
Kirsten Diprose: 13:33
Abby, what are some of the things you wanted to raise?
Abby Power: 13:36
I guess I thought I better introduce the idea and Belinda's touched on it so beautifully but raising the idea of your daily dose of happiness chemicals. So this is a little analogy. I use to remind myself that there are chemical processes going on in my body that I'm not necessarily aware of every day and obviously, again, belinda mentioned some of these. But DOSE is an acronym, so DE stands for dopamine, so dopamine is like a reward chemical. It's what helps us feel pleasure. It has a lot of functions in our body, including planning and thinking and focus and finding things interesting. So dopamine is super important, one of our main happiness chemicals and that's what chocolate does to us. You know how most people love chocolate. As soon as I put a bit of chocolate in my mouth, bang there goes that dopamine. But it's all about positive reinforcement. One surefire way to hit that off that chemical off in your body is to really achieve something and be proud of yourself about something. That's a great way to have a dopamine boost.
Abby Power: 14:38
The O in dose is for oxytocin. So Belinda talked about oxytocin. That's a love hormone. It's a really important hormone and chemical involved in childbirth and breastfeeding through all those mums out there that are listening and there's certain things we do that release that. So having sex is a great one. Physical touch, belinda was saying, and this hormone helps to decrease anxiety and stress, so that's really important for that. Anything that releases that is anything like Belinda said hugging your patients, having cuddles, having physical affection, patting an animal so a lot of us have dogs, cats, going out patting an animal. Also, socializing, doing something that will help another person, is really good for oxytocin release too. Belinda, do you want to talk about the S and E? In dose? We've got serotonin and endorphins.
Dr Belinda Bell: 15:28
Serotonin is that hormone that gets released from the midbrain that gives you the sense of well-being. It's also being targeted for a lot of the main therapies for depression and anxiety. One of the major classes is called a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor and that means that the hormone that usually is produced in the brain stays active for longer. The hormone that usually is produced in the brain stays active for longer, which gives us a chance to feel as okay as what people that don't have a deficiency in serotonin feel. Now what's interesting is during adolescence, when you feel like you're losing your mind and you're totally overwhelmed and all these life changes are happening, you actually have a lower dose of serotonin. You actually have a lower level of serotonin. You actually have a lower level of serotonin in your brain and that comes back to normal levels around adulthood, unless you've had significant trauma or significant stresses.
Dr Belinda Bell: 16:21
That's when the pathology can really come in and why we need those medications to help us feel okay.
Abby Power: 16:45
And the sun's great for serotonin too, isn't it, belinda?
Dr Belinda Bell: 16:48
Yes, Sunlight or things that can mimic sunlight, saying that a blue globe or a screen or something like that does not mimic sunlight. It needs to be actual sunlight. Also, exercise, which ties in with the E, which is endorphins, which comes from moderate exercise. Really, how big of an impact is diet? Your body can't run off empty. If someone's not eating, essentially their body goes into fight or flight, it goes into crisis mode. So it does exactly what people hope it won't do. It holds onto every little piece of energy it can because it thinks oh no, I'm in a famine.
Dr Belinda Bell: 17:31
Our brain doesn't know the difference between a famine in prehistoric times, with our development, compared to a diet these days. It's a much safer place to be in when you are eating good, whole foods on a regular basis. You do need the fuel to be able to make these happy chemicals that we're talking about. You do need food to be able to reduce your stress hormones. So your body is designed to want to reproduce and survive, and to do that it needs food, and anything that works against that is going to cause undue stress.
Kirsten Diprose: 18:12
Hormones. We all certainly get to enjoy them as females, that's for sure. Let's start with just menstruation. What can we do to help boost our mood when it naturally drops before or during our period?
Dr Belinda Bell: 18:26
I think what we were talking about, what Abby was talking about with the dose, doing what we can to boost those elements. So even when we don't feel like getting up and doing anything like exercise, it's actually quite good for us Eating well and maintaining sleep patterns. I think that's important. Yes, giving into the occasional dopamine surge is, I think, reasonable when we have our monthly times.
Dr Belinda Bell: 18:50
But I think a lot of it comes down to understanding your own cycle, knowing that there is going to be a time in your cycle once a month, if you have a regular period, that your mood is going to plummet. You are going to be cranky, angry, emotional, because your progesterone has dropped off. Your body has realized that there's no pregnancy coming this month, so it's dropped off all those hormones and has left you feeling foul, for a better word. Some people get along just fine and don't notice it, but I think it's 75 to 80% of the population experience PMS. And then there's a more severe form of that, which is a dysphoric disorder which only affects about 7% 8%. So if you're really noticing that you're really struggling in that week before your period, it's worth asking, because SSRIs can help with that.
Abby Power: 19:49
I think as well to throw in there is it's so important to teach the men in our lives how to actually help us through these times, because I don't know about you, but in my past I've had the males in my life have not necessarily understood that what the mood or the kind of mental place I'm in right now is not always my fault.
Abby Power: 20:09
There's actually processes going on in my body that I have no control over, like my time of the month. So how often do we hear males say things like oh, it's that time of the month or must be that time of the month for her because she's grumpy? Those statements and that stigma can be so detrimental to us women who are going through that at the time. And so what I really thought about is sometimes us women just want to be heard and gotten and understood, especially at different times of the month. Teaching our men when those times are, explaining to them what's going on for us and that it's out of our control and we still love them and we're really sorry that we're a bit touchy, but here's how they can help. What suggestions, belinda, have you got for teaching the men around us?
Dr Belinda Bell: 20:52
I. I guess it's not about teaching. I think it's more communicating communicating openly and going. Look, I know I'm a bit touchy at the moment. My hormones are obviously wreaking havoc. I will be back to my human self soon and telling them what you need. Telling them what you need, whether that's that you need a cuppa or you need us to be left alone. It's okay. We don't want to be fixed, we just need time to get through this fluctuation of hormones.
Kirsten Diprose: 21:23
Put it on the calendar. Yes, the red zone, this is when it's likely to happen. So just silently check if I'm being difficult. What about for other times where hormones can really change? So menopause is obviously another one there's so much change.
Dr Belinda Bell: 21:43
It's just like puberty. You have start to change your hormonal profile and it's also changing your sense of identity identity as well. So much has changed. You've come to the end of your childbearing years and you don't just have that to come around to often. There are changes in the career, changes in the household. Your kids might be leaving home, so you're facing things like the feeling of empty nest and all going on behind. That is that you're losing your estrogen and progesterone. You're you're losing those things that help you to feel pretty stable as well when you hit menopause. There are so many things in your body happening that are changing that I think it's important to be aware that you're going through a lot Like there is a lot of change. Your skin dries out, other places dry out, just you're getting hot flashes. Your body just feels like it's losing its mind all over again.
Kirsten Diprose: 22:44
Is there anything good about?
Abby Power: 22:45
menopause, not having periods anymore once it finishes. So in the last episode we talked, jenna and myself shared our stories about postnatal depression and obviously we know during pregnancy and just after giving birth there's a lot going on in your body and a lot going on in your mind as well. Talk us through, I guess, some of the hormonal changes that are going on at that time and how we can support our mental health in one of those kind of really critical points in a woman's life.
Dr Belinda Bell: 23:14
I think when you have bub, you essentially have a lot of oxytocin going through the body because it helps the baby to be expelled from the body, and at the same time you get a release of prostaglandins, which helps with the contractions as well, and overall it just gives you a bit of a high and it's, I think, that women go through childbirth and then we'll go through it again. You have the oxytocin and you have that high, but then suddenly you have a drop of these hormones at about day eight, and so, with the fluctuations in the hormones that are happening in the body once you've essentially had the child, you have just this radical sensation of a change in emotions and it's hard for you to feel what's baseline. You've just had a child, you've gone through one of the biggest changes in your life and these hormones are all changing at such a rapid pace that it's really hard to find your footing when you're in such a vulnerable state.
Kirsten Diprose: 24:17
It's often called sort of the baby blues, isn't it? And I remember it really well because it was probably on about, yeah, about a week or so after giving birth. My husband had shaved his head and there was hair in the sink and on the floor of the bathroom and I burst into tears at the overwhelm of having to like deal with this as well as all of the other things. Like it just made me so upset that I just burst into tears, which, again, is a bit of an extreme reaction to something, but I do remember having those emotions.
Dr Belinda Bell: 24:53
Yeah, and it's very real and very confronting and it's not insignificant. It's not an insignificant time in your life. So be forgiving of yourself, be forgiving of what you're feeling. Another thing that people find is that they don't straight away love their child, something that you hear time and time again, and for me to say that is normal. You've gone through a lot of change. You're a person before you had this baby and some people go oh my gosh, there's something wrong with me because I haven't made that instant connection with my child. But no, it comes with time and forgive yourself for all those feelings. It's a really rough, volatile, vulnerable time and just do your best. And if someone else says or maybe you should chat to someone, or you're feeling like you're really not okay by about week four, then I'd be seeking help.
Kirsten Diprose: 25:48
So we've talked about food and we've talked about sunlight and exercise. Is there anything else that can make us feel good or give us a boost in some of those feel good chemicals?
Abby Power: 25:58
Yeah for sure. So there's a lot of things. Obviously, we've talked a bit about exercise and a bit about physical touch. Something like giving somebody that you care about a massage is actually a really great way to release oxytocin. There's other ways socializing. So, generally speaking, humans are quite social creatures. So getting out and having a cup of coffee with your girlfriends or picking up the phone and having a phone call. There's other things like exposing yourself to sunlight is really great for serotonin. So getting out in nature, walking in the fresh air, things like that, Patting an animal, like I said before, it might be really good.
Abby Power: 26:33
Doing something to help others is a really great way of boosting our own feel-good hormones. It makes us feel really good when we help somebody else do something. And then there's things like laughing and playing and listening to music. Singing, singing in a group setting you might join a choir that I get. That's not everybody's cup of tea, but yeah, things like laughing, singing, playing music in groups and eating really delicious food. I know how good I feel when I cook a delicious meal and I'm eating it with the people that I care about the most in the world. So there's some really good kind of easy, day-to-day implementation strategies.
Dr Belinda Bell: 27:11
And not to be ignored is the impact of nature on our mood and well-being. There have been studies showing that children that have a lot of exposure to green settings abundant green settings growing up have a different level of attentiveness than kids that grow up in an urban setting. There have actually been some studies done. What it's been shown more and more to do is to increase your sense of calm, mental clarity and just sense of well-being. So if you need to step out of your setting for a minute, if you're feeling overwhelmed, if you're feeling stressed, go stand next to a pot plant if that's all you have, but go out and get into nature every now and then. There's been some suggestion that two hours a week of being in nature is enough to have those positive effects In whatever capacity. You can let some green into your life. That's my recommendation.
Abby Power: 28:11
It also gives us a break from technology too. A lot of us spend a lot of time on our computers and our phones, so getting out in nature is also really great for a tech break. I think I just really want to normalize checking in on women's mental health and making sure each other are okay. So obviously we've just talked a little bit about pregnancy and giving birth, and during that time I see that the focus becomes a lot about the baby and the new little person in the world, and often the mother can be forgotten, and so I really want to normalize checking in on mum during that time.
Abby Power: 28:44
But then the bigger picture of society. We hear things said like oh, she's a woman, she'll be okay because she can talk about it. Comments like that make my blood boil because just because somebody is a woman and there's this societal pressure or this stigma that exists in society that women are good talkers, people assume that women will be fine with their mental health because they have the ability to open their mouth and communicate and they're social creatures. But I'm so all about normalizing checking in on women as well. So I guess that's probably my closing message that I want to put across to our listeners is check on the women in your life. Just because they're women and they like to talk doesn't mean they talk about all the hard stuff all the time.
Kirsten Diprose: 29:26
Thank you both. Dr Belinda Bell for joining us You're on the board, of course, of let's Talk and to Abbey, power Abbey. Thank you for the whole series. I know how much work you've put in behind the scenes in research and getting the right people on, so thank you.
Abby Power: 29:42
No, thank you very much for having us. It's been brilliant to share the airwaves with you, and you do such a great job with Ducks on the Pond and, yeah, we hope our listeners have gotten some great value out of this series.
Kirsten Diprose: 29:55
And that's it for another episode of Ducks on the Pond. Thank you for listening to this series. Just another reminder that the views expressed in this episode are our own and that we are not providing any medical advice. Of course, if you would like support, please speak to your GP and follow your healthcare advice, and if you need to talk to someone, lifeline is always there on 13, 11, 14. And, of course, let's Talk is a fabulous resource too, so I urge you to check out their website and to see what they've got going on. Keep up to date with Ducks on the Pond by following us on Instagram. We'll be officially back in season in September, but I have a bonus episode coming out with some awesome Canadian farming women at the end of June, so stay tuned, and if you're interested in doing a collaboration with us or sponsoring an episode, then let me know. This is a Rural Podcasting Co-production. My name's Kirsten Diprose and I'll catch you next time.
